‘It’s either him or me’
BY LEE YUK PENG and NG CHENG YEE
MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat says he will step down as president if his sacked deputy is voted in by the delegates. To overturn the presidential council’s decision is tantamount to casting a vote of no confidence against the council and him.
HE has made up his mind. MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat is making it clear to the 2,377 central delegates at the coming EGM on Oct 10 that he will not stay if his sacked deputy Datuk Seri Dr Chua Soi Lek returns.
In an hour-long interview with Ong, he was composed and clear-minded and candid in his responses.
The president also gave glimpses into his personal life and shared how his family members have to bear the brunt of his political convictions; they know he will not compromise on his principles.
Below are excerpts from the interview.
(Following the interview, the central committee decided yesterday to suspend Dr Chua for four years, revising the presidential council’s decision to sack him.)
Source of his energy
> You have been MCA president for nearly a year. Your energy is said to have been sapped by the Port Klang Free Zone (PKFZ) and Chua Soi Lek (CSL) issues. The perception is that you are unable to focus your attention on other matters. Do you agree with this view?
I would say that it is incorrect to say only PKFZ and CSL sapped my energy or time.
In reality, I allocated a large proportion of my time to party work, listening to the grassroots even before the petition for the EGM (extraordinary general meeting).
At the same time, when we talk about party transformation, we talk about initiatives after the March 8 election setback; I mean business.
I have been meeting my team of MCA ministers and deputy ministers on a weekly basis at MCA pre-Cabinet meetings, in addition to the regular presidential council (PC) and central committee (CC) meetings.
On top of that, (I’ve been) going for party programmes like HOPE (Higher Opportunities for Private Education) and TRAIN (Technical Resource and Internship Network).
I am going to have another launch afterwards.
These are programmes producing some positive results at the initial stage of implementation and I need to put in more effort.
In politics, other than routine work, what is more important is to put in some fresh thoughts and have some brain-storming sessions with people from all walks of life, including NGOs, professional groups and the public.
So far, those who follow my itinerary will be able to tell you about the kind of townhall meetings I’ve had.
These meetings are sufficient to indicate PKFZ and CSL are not the only issues on my agenda.
But having said that, as far as PKFZ is concerned, I must acknowledge that I have been burning the midnight oil for the past six months until 2am to 3am every day.
I need to read the documents, stacks of them, even before the audit report is released.
I also read various blogs for the comments or those produced by my officials.
I’ve been hands-on.
> How do you keep fresh every day with your punishing schedule?
I have trimmed down quite a lot. What is important is that every day is a long day for me.
I need to stay alert and fresh.
Sometimes fresh is quite a relative term.
It depends on the workload and the magnitude of the workload.
I make full use of my sleeping hours to have quality sleep.
Once I go to bed, I close my mind; I don’t allow any more thoughts to disturb me.
I maintain about five hours of sleep.
That is very minimal.
When I hit the roads, I take naps in the car or while travelling on the plane.
> Do you observe any special diet?
I have been quite diet-conscious nowadays.
In our kind of walkabout activities, they would not be complete without dinner or lunch.
In many instances, by the end of the day, I get home at midnight, and that is the time for me to have my dinner or supper but not heavy stuff.
Normally, during dinners, I need to talk to people, to address the crowd and thus have no time to dine properly.
That’s the kind of life I have embarked on.
> Your trimming down is due to your workload or not eating properly?
Unconsciously, I trimmed down. When you are under tremendous pressure, you may fall into the trap of overeating. Certain individuals tend to over eat when they are under tremendous pressure.
I experienced that once – I was ballooning – and it really taught me a lesson.
PKFZ
> Do you still have any unfinished task in the PKFZ probe? What are the priorities that should be looked into?
As far as the PKFZ probe is concerned, I would say by now, what is pending is our turnaround plan.
I promised the panel on the business turnaround plan that they would be given extra time to look into the possibilities and the proposals they received.
At the same time, the inception of a high-powered task force chaired by the Chief Secretary to the Government is indeed necessary and timely to turn the PKFZ project around.
As you know, this is going to involve inter-department and even inter-ministry collaboration.
For instance, when we talk about the financial restructuring of the MOF (Ministry of Finance) loan, that certainly necessitates the involvement of MOF.
This is indeed timely.
I would like to share with you some of my observations here on the PKFZ.
The priorities now are to ensure the RM1.
5bil identified by the PKA special task force as the amount overcharged or fraudulently claimed by contractors, that must be recovered, and everybody agrees to that.
It is our right to recover the money and people want to see heads roll, of course.
It can’t be a case of crime without the perpetrators identified.
They must be brought to justice and I told the opposition leaders in the House that MOT (Ministry of Transport) can’t play the role of prosecutor, judge and police.
At the same time, since we have submitted all the findings to the MACC (Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission) and the police, now it is our job to continue with the collaboration with the entities concerned to ensure justice prevails.
Dr Chua’s accusations
> Dr Chua has accused you of conducting Umno bashing at closed door meetings. What is your response?
This is something strange to me because when I went around the country conducting the closed door sessions of briefing for the grassroots, delegates and non-delegates, they have the right to ask, to know.
It it is fair to keep them updated and even if it is in relation to the current issues – the expulsion of CSL – I remain steadfast in my belief that it is only fair for us to have a heart-to-heart talk with our own members behind closed doors, especially in dealing with our own MCA family problems.
Why should we do the so-called alleged bashing of our parties? At each and every one of these sessions, I have never noticed Dr Chua’s presence.
I don’t think it is right or appropriate for a politician like him who is seasoned enough to know that it is inappropriate and unethical to a certain extent to make allegations based on hearsay.
As far as I am concerned, I remain issue-centric.
What is right is right.
What is wrong is wrong.
I don’t believe in washing dirty linen in the public.
That explains why I chose to talk to my grassroots behind closed doors.
Just to cite one example, when I had my heart-to-heart talk with non-party insiders like professionals or a certain fraternity, they want to speak their minds.
That is a different form of townhall meeting.
It is only fair to give people opportunities to speak their mind, or to express their frustration, agony or apprehension.
Sometimes it can be mind boggling and sometimes quite hurtful as well.
But it is good to do that and I see no reason why we must resort to the bashing of third parties, including Umno or whoever.
I believe in problem solving and not being part of the problem.
> He also said you have done nothing since you became the president. Your comments, please?
At the end of the day, it is the outcome that speaks louder.
Allegations are made by certain interested parties within their own cocoon, which I would liken to an ostrich burying its head in the sand.
This is because you can see very well that we have been issue-driven.
For instance, the HOPE and TRAIN programmes, the most recent initiative that we set up – the nationwide initiative to help those longing for their citizenship.
It is not today that we jump on the wagon.
Actually, we have been doing that nationwide.
We even have a taskforce to follow up and follow through.
In addition, the specific cases involving foreign spouses, all these we need lots of coordination and hard work.
Things like legislation or even some of the prevailing government policies, we have our policy research and it is not only that we are playing a reactive role but rather in many instances we come up with our own set of proposed solutions after speaking to various social and professional groups.
We have been doing that and of course when Dr Chua chose not to get himself involved, when everyone is invited ... when you choose to insulate yourself, there is nothing much we can do.
Sometimes, (this you can choose to put on record or otherwise) even if he attends, he may attend for half an hour.
Even that, people start speculating; when you leave half way, people will start asking, hey, what is going on? But CC and PC meetings, for instance, when you are part of the team and you make collective decisions after debating; many a times, some of his valuable input we accommodated.
We agree to disagree, that is the name of the game.
After having reached a consensus, then he would choose to speak otherwise at his own press conference.
I think that has somehow or rather ruffled the feathers of other CC and PC members.
> You have placed morality high on your agenda. Why is this value so important to you when compromises are made in politics?
To me, I am principle-driven, even when I was a nobody before I climbed up the political ladder from my early days as a young engineer.
I was brought up in a difficult environment and I was taught the basic fundamentals and principles that once you compromise your principles, it is going to negate the entire purpose of you being in public office.
That was the very first principle I was reminded of by my late mum, my former teacher who has been watching and guiding me.
But nonetheless, it has never been my intention to play moral police.
To say that I am playing moral police, I think that is absolutely irrelevant.
In fact, before the party election last year, I was asked to comment on Dr Chua’s DVD sex scandal.
What I did was to comment on the broad principle of morality for public office holders.
Little did I expect that it would perhaps touch a raw nerve with him.
In fact, I did not even want to comment on the issue specifically.
I believe in adhering to the broad principles and not going for individuals.
EGM resolutions and their implications
> What are the implications of the five resolutions?
The first two resolutions are rather conspicuous notwithstanding that some of the delegates have given me feedback that when they first signed on the petition form for an EGM, they were told that Dr Chua merely wanted to be reinstated as a member and retire as a member.
He made no mention of a vote of no confidence.
That was what the grassroots told me – even last night, when I was at my campaign trail, so to speak.
The first resolution, the vote of no confidence, we know that a simple majority once carried, I will be left with no choice but to bow out and step down.
Anyone who argues that I do not need to do so, that only a two-third majority is required to boot me out, I think that is a great lie.
On Resolution 2, the reinstatement of Dr Chua, we all know that PC made a collective decision on Aug 26 by endorsing the recommendation of the Disciplinary Board to expel Dr Chua.
If he were to be reinstated by a simple majority, this tantamounts to casting a vote of no confidence against the entire PC.
The outcome is clear; the writing is on the wall.
If this were to happen, then by democratic principle, the whole lot would have to go, the entire PC, as it was a collective decision and not a one-man decision.
I am not forcing anyone to do so.
Anybody who abides by the ground rules of the game, in the name of democracy, these are the unavoidable outcomes.
Resolution 3 to reinstate CSL as deputy president is only relevant if and only if he were to be reinstated as a member first.
You can’t reinstate someone as a deputy president of the party before you are reinstated as a member.
These two are intertwined.
Resolution four and five are academic and they are making presumptions.
I don’t think it is fair to make such presumptions.
Never before in any EGM would you be allowed to make presumptuous resolutions.
I play no hard ball against anybody.
I mean business when I want to facilitate the EGM, that’s it.
You want it that way, fine, I’m accommodating.
> What if no simple majority is achieved at Resolution 1, but delegates still want to annul the PC’s decision to reinstate Dr Chua?
Once you overrule the PC, then the PC, including me, as head of the council, all will have to go.
> Even if there is no simple majority in Resolution 1?
Yes.
I am not trying to interpret in such a way I have any intention to issue a real threat.
Why should I in the first place? I am merely interpreting the scenario from the usual practice of democracy.
It is not by OTK standard.
> What if the delegates want him (Dr Chua) to return and you not to go?
They will have to make a choice.
Either this or that.
Sin Chew Daily and China Press came up with four possibilities.
They are entitled to their views.
I wish to see members of the public be better versed with public democracy.
> What if delegates support PC’s decision but they want him back as a member?
Well, you must go back to the resolution.
We didn’t draft the resolution.
It is his resolution.
At the same time, the grace period was granted to him to appeal by Sept 16.
He did not appeal.
Once you do not appeal to the CC for any disciplinary matter, the case is considered close.
You can’t have the cake and eat it at the same time.
In this respect, we are still accommodating the proposed resolutions from those who petitioned for the EGM.
By now, it is clear that the game plan is not to reinstate him but to remove me.
But on a few occasions and last night in Kuala Terengganu, the grassroots were keen to know if I am voted out and he is reinstated, what is the scenario? Some were quick to provide their own answers by saying that ultimately, once the presidency were to fall vacant, that would be filled up by the deputy immediately, not as acting president, but as a full-fledged president.
They try to put the picture together by looking at all the resolutions.
> What if they have no confidence in you as in resolution 1 but they do not want CSL to come back either?
That is another scenario. In fact, this is just like probability as in dealing with maths problems.
The party constitution has no say if No 1 and No 2 are to go; it only says No 2 to fill No 1’s place.
The constitution is silent on that.
The CC would have to convene and play the role to elect a president.
If I may share with you some of my thoughts – certain quarters seem to have promoted a new school of thought.
Both OTK and CSL to go at the same time.
They asked me to respond; I reserved my response at that time.
Today, I should say something.
In the first place, when you want a person to go, you must have some good grounds.
Is it because of the tiff between OTK and CSL you want both to go? I have never had any sex scandal nor participated in any improper or immoral wrongdoings.
Even when wild allegations were made against me on the alleged RM10mil political gift, I lodged a report with the police and MACC.
That was followed by a legal suit immediately.
I must be given an equal opportunity to clear my name.
> Why did you push the PKFZ and Chua Soi Lek issues so far? Some question if this is worth it?
I have no regrets for my action on the PKFZ; when I reflect on some of the recent incidents following the PKFZ issue, I am fully aware that the straight path is full of danger.
The PKFZ is a risk that I have to take as I have put the people’s agenda first.
I walk the talk and I mean what I say.
The very first day when I set foot on the PKFZ ground, early May last year, I vowed to conduct an indepth and thorough investigation.
I strongly believe that I should be guided by conscience on the issue and it involves people’s money.
They have the right to know and recover their money if fraudulent claims have been made.
As for CSL, to me, there is no such thing as personal agenda or personal vendetta.
His issue was not created by me.
The sex scandal, the DVD, all this took place before I was elected president.
He has been arguing that he was duly elected.
Don’t forget that I too was popularly elected, just like the CC and PC members.
When the decision was made to endorse the disciplinary board’s recommendation to expel him, that was a collective decision.
How could he argue that this is one man’s decision? In general, I have an uphill battle to strengthen the MCA in light of the electoral setback last year.
It is either we truly embrace change and reforms or we face a bigger onslaught at the next general election.
It is better for us to take the bull by the horns today rather than to face the harsh reality tomorrow.
This is what I believe in.
Since my childhood days, this has always been my principle.
Of family, threats and SMSes
> Have there been many more threats since you last spoke about it? Are your family members concerned?
Threats in different forms as well as smearing almost on a daily basis.
Smearing and text messages in abusive language, all these I can tolerate.
I make no fuss about it; I am not the type to cry over such things.
It is not that I choose to condone or concur with it, to me this is simply unethical, unnecessary and unbecoming of certain people but I learn to live with it.
> Do you still receive abusive SMS now?
The abusive SMSes are far outnumbered by the messages and e-mails from all over, not just from MCA members, but even from non-Chinese Malaysians, people from all faiths including Christians, Buddhists and even Muslim friends; they told me they offer prayers for me.
> Are your family members concerned about the threat?
I feel sorry for them, burdening them with unnecessary duress.
My spouse and three girls need to live with this kind of political ordeal from time to time.
Perhaps this is the price I need to pay.
My daughter once lamented to me: “It has never been easy to be your daughter.”
> How did you respond to your daughter?
I told her that this is the path I need to take and I’m sorry that I have caused them such inconvenience.
But in the name of justice, I need to pursue my path and when I choose to do so, anyone in his right frame of mind can see that there is no personal gain.
What can I gain from all this? Notwithstanding what my detractors have been saying, that I’m trying to play hero.
What hero? Dead hero? I’m the MCA president and one of the federal ministers.
If you’re saying that I’m playing hero, you’re implying that I’m trying to climb up the ladder.
Where else can I be elevated to? That doesn’t make sense.
The five resolutions
€ TO move a motion of no-confidence against Ong;
€ TO annul the decision by the presidential council to expel Dr Chua;
€ TO reinstate Dr Chua as MCA deputy president;
€ TO revoke any appointments including the deputy president made before the EGM; and
€ THAT no disciplinary action be taken against the EGM requisitionists. Ong said the delegates would be casting a vote of no-confidence against the entire council even if they were to vote only in favour of the second resolution — to annul the presidential council’s decision to sack Dr Chua.
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